• Registered: 2008-01-28
  • Posts: 18

Topic: Muddy Neck Pickup

Greetings all,

Quick Les Paul question for ya:   I can cop a pretty solid tone from the bridge pickup of my LP... it's big and fat, with clarity and sparkle, yet not overbearing on the top end.   When switch the neck pickup with those same settings, it's a little muddy.   the notes are still round, but almost tooo round.   I'm sure that's because so much of the great tone on the bridge pickup is due to the heavy mids from both amp and pedals.  I've played a little with the individual poles on the pickup, and have sunk it a bunch (flush with the body, slightly below the bezel). Still, it's pretty muddy.   The guitar is an LP standard 04; the pickups are BB pros.
The amp is a plexi clone with a Barber Direct Drive and an a TS-9 stacked with low drives on each (nothing past 11:00). 

Thoughts,
Mike

(i'd love to see the neck pickup rock like Marc Ford's playing with The Crowes... it's clear and still very much the neck pickup sound)

  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2008-10-26
  • Posts: 2,926

Re: Muddy Neck Pickup

I've always heard if you got pickup covers they smooth things out quite a bit.  you could put a little more hair on it by removing the cover if you have one on it.  Might look funny  but if it works who cares.  Or you could change the value in your neck pickup's tone and volume.  Or you could go up to a 1 meg pots.  Standard Gibson's are 500k.

AD3THREE's Website

  • Rick
  • Platinum
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2006-04-22
  • Posts: 317

Re: Muddy Neck Pickup

The most non-muddy neck pickup I have ever played
is a Seymour Duncan Seth Lover
Very clear and articulate

  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 2008-04-23
  • Posts: 553

Re: Muddy Neck Pickup

Hi,

there is a simple way to reduce the muffle to a certain degree.
If you have a PAF type pup with polepieces then screw the pu down as possible
and the polepieces out that they stick over the surface.
Also you can turn the pickup 180º around (not upside down LOL)
so that the side with polepieces show toward the bridge instead to the peghead
if you can follow me. At my '57 goldtop it was a good improvement.
I have sold that one now since I have the JBLP btw..

good luck
Alex

...it's a musical journey
www.u2-experience.de

Stratovari's Website

  • From: Lancashire
  • Registered: 2008-02-26
  • Posts: 700

Re: Muddy Neck Pickup

I have the same sort of problem, when im doing rhythm it sounds too bassy and woofy (mebe im playing too hard cause I tend to thump the bass strings alot I dont have that problem on a strat) but for lead the neck sounds lush its got great sustain and is well rounded volume and tone wise infact i use it more for lead than the bridge, Just a shame I cant find a nice rhythm sound on it sad tis cool for riff work though.

6 Reply by Slidewinder (edited by Slidewinder 2009-01-09 09:02:40)

  • Registered: 2008-11-01
  • Posts: 103

Re: Muddy Neck Pickup

Mike, before you go changing pickups and screwing pole peices up and down, do you know the type of wiring setup you have for your pickups, and what is the capacitor type and value?

I know that potting pickups too heavily can really affect the tone. It was pretty apparent when I was comparing regular burstbuckers to BB pro's. The pro's are wax potted and sounded more subdued than the regular unpotted BB's.
I've potted a lot of strat pickups in a double boiler, have never done humbuckers but even with single coils you can hear the difference.

Still, unless your pickup is really heavily absorbed with wax it shouldn't sound muddy, which is why I asked the questions above.

  • From: Detroit
  • Registered: 2006-06-02
  • Posts: 5,807

Re: Muddy Neck Pickup

500k pots are probably what you have for volume control. Your tone issue could be a simple matter of resistance on your volume pots.

Here's what I'd try:
1. Replace it with a 1meg pot and see if it's hotter (depending on the k of your pickup, you could try a 2meg)
2. Replace it with a 250k pot and hear the difference

"How 1 and 2 meg pots work"
http://torresengineering.stores.yahoo.n … 2megp.html

- Nic from Detroit... posting on JB's Forum since 6-2-2006
Ask me about my handwound Great Lakes Guitar Pickups
Since 2010, Bonamassa fans have taken advantage of my JB friend discount = my cost + shipping. cool
  • Registered: 2008-01-28
  • Posts: 18

Re: Muddy Neck Pickup

Slidewinder,

I'm not entirely sure what the values are on the components, but I do know it's all stock... even down to the righty-wired pots (i'm a lefty... so they open backwards... until this afternoon at least!)    Everything's stock, if that's helpful.

M.

  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2008-10-26
  • Posts: 2,926

Re: Muddy Neck Pickup

I've been reading about the different magnets too while I was doing the Peter Green mod.  Anyway you can revoice the pickup without rewiring it by just replacing the magnet.  If you have the Alnico II in the neck you could try going up to Alnico 3 or a 5 to give it a bit more treble.  What I like best about this is you don't have to rewire anything but you might have to break the wax potting to get the magnet.  Also the magnets are cheap.  I've seen all of them priced for around $3 to $6 depending on the site.  It should be an interesting change.  I wouldn't go too drastc though as you don't want it to have a better treble bite then your bridge.

AD3THREE's Website

  • Registered: 2006-04-22
  • Posts: 1,168

Re: Muddy Neck Pickup

A lower output pickup like a seymore duncan 59 will work.. One came in the front of my korina V and it does that clear almost "S" word thing.. try that or try lowering the pick way down and see it it clears up.. but you in a good place.. its easier to add high end than it is to take it away..
Joe B

  • Registered: 2008-11-01
  • Posts: 103

Re: Muddy Neck Pickup

I mentioned checking the posts and caps because Mike said he'd alread tried lowering the pickups way down, as well as messing with the magnets without any luck.
I've measured "stock" Gibson 500K pots that actually metered at around 360K and while that's pretty low a lot of them come in around 420K, which is why I mentioned the RS super pots that have a very smooth roll off but also measure around 512-540K every time.
I changed my .022 bumble bee cap to a .015 vitamin Q poi and that helped as well, even without rolling off the tone.
It made a nice difference on my guitar and others I've worked on.

He might like the sound of another pickup, but I just thought making sure the wiring circuit checks out first is cheaper and will give him the best tone, regardless of what pickup he uses.
Sorry Joe, I hope I'm not stepping on any toes here. When it comes to tone I haven't heard anyone do it better regardless of what guitar you're using. I just thought starting from the ground up will help make the pickup sound it's best and if it still doesn't sound right then maybe it's time to swap.

Mike, I'm in Canada but I have a few spare vitamin Q caps and can send you a couple to try
if you like.

  • From: Oklahoma
  • Registered: 2008-03-28
  • Posts: 263

Re: Muddy Neck Pickup

RS Superpots are amazing.  I have them in my SG and they are perfect. 

  I would also strongly recommend changing the caps.  Since stocks are ceramic P.O.S., a good quality cap will do you a lot more good than you realize.  For that guitar, try something between .018 and .033 to see which sounds better in your rig.  Stock value is .022.

Don't play leapfrog with a unicorn
  • Registered: 2008-01-28
  • Posts: 18

Re: Muddy Neck Pickup

Mike, I'm in Canada but I have a few spare vitamin Q caps and can send you a couple to try
if you like.

I'd take you up on that.   my email is mike.muscarella@gmail.com .   drop me a line and i'll send you my address.   

m.

  • From: Florida, USA
  • Registered: 2008-06-04
  • Posts: 1,420

Re: Muddy Neck Pickup

The way I go about getting usable neck and bridge tones out of my Les Paul (has BB 1 and 2's in it) is by setting the amps to where they sound great with the neck pickup then I switch to my bridge pickup.  Too bright right?  Then just roll a LITTLE highs/presence or whatever on your particular amp to take some zing off the sound.  Then I go back to the neck pickup.  If it sounds good then I roll my bridge pickup's tone knob to like 5-7 and that usually does the job.  Don't overlook the tone controls on the guitar!  Also try picking closer to the bridge when you use the neck and closer to the neck of the guitar when on the bridge pickup.  Good Luck!

'67 and '74 Fender Twin Reverbs, '74 Marshall 1987 lead mkII, Metro Superlead 100. Pedals from TC Electronic, Ibanez, Dunlop, BK Butler, Electro-Harmonix, Fulltone, Maestro/Gibson, Loopmaster switching, VoodooLab, Boss. Gibson and Fender guitars, Dimarzio pickups.